Saved!
I can no longer consider myself saved.
I did have a conversion experience, back when I was three. I don’t really remember it. Back then it would have been inviting Jesus into my heart and accepting him as my personal savior. I was taught that everybody sins, and that unless they said the sinner’s prayer, they were going to burn eternally in Hell.
It took my brother longer. He was five. I clearly remember pressuring him, and somehow it doesn’t feel like it was out of concern. It was more like… impatience. I knew he was going to do it eventually, I just wanted him to hurry up and do it.
My desire to Evangelize pretty much ended there. It didn’t seem right to peddle Christianity as after-life fire insurance for those who prefer not to burn, but at the same time, I couldn’t accept the fact that being a Christian made my life easier.
Then things fell apart. With the help of the questioning of Optimus Prime, and a few University classes here and there, I came to view Salvation as either illogical or cruel. Why would God create people who are predisposed to disobey rules, which He also created, and then punish those people when they do what they are predisposed to do? And to solve this problem, God manifests Himself as a man and punishes Himself in place of everybody else (because according to His own law, someone had to be punished)? Oh, but there’s a catch: you have to believe, truly believe that’s the way it is. With only an ancient document to guide you. If you don’t accept it, then you still get punished, and not just a regular old punishment, ETERNAL punishment.
How the fuck does that make sense? Either God is cruel, or that’s just not the way it is.
I chose the latter option.
I did have a conversion experience, back when I was three. I don’t really remember it. Back then it would have been inviting Jesus into my heart and accepting him as my personal savior. I was taught that everybody sins, and that unless they said the sinner’s prayer, they were going to burn eternally in Hell.
It took my brother longer. He was five. I clearly remember pressuring him, and somehow it doesn’t feel like it was out of concern. It was more like… impatience. I knew he was going to do it eventually, I just wanted him to hurry up and do it.
My desire to Evangelize pretty much ended there. It didn’t seem right to peddle Christianity as after-life fire insurance for those who prefer not to burn, but at the same time, I couldn’t accept the fact that being a Christian made my life easier.
Then things fell apart. With the help of the questioning of Optimus Prime, and a few University classes here and there, I came to view Salvation as either illogical or cruel. Why would God create people who are predisposed to disobey rules, which He also created, and then punish those people when they do what they are predisposed to do? And to solve this problem, God manifests Himself as a man and punishes Himself in place of everybody else (because according to His own law, someone had to be punished)? Oh, but there’s a catch: you have to believe, truly believe that’s the way it is. With only an ancient document to guide you. If you don’t accept it, then you still get punished, and not just a regular old punishment, ETERNAL punishment.
How the fuck does that make sense? Either God is cruel, or that’s just not the way it is.
I chose the latter option.
posted by deadwriter at 7:35 p.m.
5 Comments:
That makes me sad.Not because I want you to believe what I want you to believe but i'm sad because I still believe that you will go to hell while I go to heaven. Why because we are predisposed to sin does
that make God cruel? Hes God he can do whatever the fuck he wants. And is he really that cruel. Weve always been given a
way out. I dont mean the way out that you can choose not to sin if you want (although I think that exists), but the way out in
sacrafices before and Jesus after. I don't know why we are predisposed to sin but I agree thats true. But does that mean antonement is not correct?
peace out
Yes, if you believe in an omnipotent God, He can do whatever He wants. But jus tbecause nothing or noone can stop Him doesn't mean He isn't cruel. If you believe things like that, God created a world where we would NEED a way out, and then made the way out so obscure that over half of the people in the world don't see the problem, let alone see the way out. So when faced with the alternative of God being a cruel ass with hell and damnation, or God as a little more understanding without hell and damnation, I took the latter.
Now that doesn't mean I don't have my days/weeks/months where I think that God is an ass, or my dyas/weeks/months where I think there actual;ly isn't a God, but when I'm not in one of those spells, I still don't believe in atonement.
I guess I don't believe that people don't see there is a problem. While I do abmit to many grey areas, I think there is more non-grey areas i.e. people know when they are doing something wrong so they know when there is a problem. Thus if they are doing things wrong then there's probably a penalty for wrong... otherwise there would be no reason for right and wrong because you could just be wrong and who cares. that doesn't mean i think people should be right to avoid hell, just that's the consequence. why is God cruel if he gives us an inate way of knowing things are wrong and then even when we do things that are worng, he still provides a way "out"
A) I see no proof that people have an inate knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. You might be able to acknowledge the posibility on some issues (eg. killing other people for sport) but they are by far the minority.
B)Do you believe this inate sense of right and wrong comes with a sense of retribution for wrong? Isn't it just as likely that it's a learned association (when I tiop the plant over mommy smacks my hand).
C)Some people do things they think are right because they want the world to be better, and they have compassion for other people, and they firmly believe their right actions will help. Not out of fear of punishment. In fact, those people are often rewarded with punsihment for their good deads.
D) The "way out" is far from clea. Do you think there is also an inate sense that Jesus died for our sins and we have to accept Him as our personal saviour to go to heaven? If so, why does more than half of the world believe that to be false?
If this was the way things actually were, than God would be cruel. he would have made us with the tendancy to sin, regardless of whether we realized it (with our inate sense of right and wrong) or not. Then, He creates a punishment for when we do the sins He essentialy created us to make. And then, He creates a loop hole that it so complex and difficult to understand and/or believe that less than half of the worl get it. Why isn't that cruel?
ok
a) i don't think i can give you any proof that there is an inate sense of right and wrong. that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. i think it also goes fairly deep into the smallest of wrongs and rights. cs lewis uses the butting in line example. not too many people would feel that stepping into the front of the line is not in some way wrong. that proves nothing i know.
b)i'm not sure what i think about retribution being inate
c) i agree with many people doing things that are right to help the world and make it a better place. i also don't think its a coincidence that those right things seems to coincide fairly close to the bibles right and wrongs
d)no i don't think its inate
i guess i don't see it as being that complicated. when i do something thats wrong, whether learned or not, i think there is a consequence. in order for me to avoid the consequence i need someone to take the consequence for me, someone who would not have had to take the consequence if he didn't have to. how that works, i'm not sure.
in terms of why we are wired to sin i don't know. i know my pastors would say that at one point all the things we are hard wired to do were of some non sinful use before "the fall of man". i don't know if i believe that or not.
in the end i think i have some faith in atonement out of fear, as i'm sure many others do but do not admit. but i guess on some level i also truely believe. i don't think that fear would be enough to hold me to my faith.
i don't know how to justify that half the world does not believe. i honestly believe in some way those that have heard "the message" are responsible from that point on for what they believe and that somewhere inside they know it is the right answer. as for those who have not heard, i guess i believe that they will be dealt with fairly by God.
all this to say that i still have as many questions as ever, but out of fear and faith learned or inate i don't know, i still believe what i believe
Post a Comment
<< Home